tv 60 Minutes CBS March 11, 2012 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
captioning funded by cbs and ford-- built for the road ahead. >> stahl: meir dagan is the former head of the mossad. his primary mission was to prevent iran from developing a nuclear weapon. few know their regime better, which is why we were surprised when dagan told us... >> the regime in iran is a very rational regime. >> stahl: do you think ahmadinejad is rational? >> the answer is yes. not exactly our rational, but i think that he is rational. >> gupta: it all started in 2004, when sal khan was working as a hedge fund analyst in boston, and his cousin nadia, a
seventh-grader in new orleans, was struggling with algebra. he agreed to tutor her remotely, and wound up posting lessons on youtube. but then, an odd thing happened-- total strangers started using them, too. >> just like we talked about consumer surplus, this is a producer surplus. >> innovation never comes from the established institutions. it's always from a graduate student or a crazy person or somebody with a great vision. sal is that person in education, in my view. he built a platform that could completely change education in america. ♪ ♪ >> logan: they travel with their kids, wives, future wives, even ex-wives. at first glance, it looked like one big happy family. but this is aerosmith, a band that still fights each other over music, the spotlight, and credit, even after 40 years. ♪ ♪ >> they ride my coattails. >> logan: you're not supposed to
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>> stahl: when president obama met with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu this past week, the subject was how, when and if to attack iran's nuclear facilities. netanyahu saying israel can't afford to wait much longer; mr. obama arguing there's still time to let sanctions and diplomacy do the job. and he said some top intelligence officials in israel side with him. actually, you'll hear from one of them tonight-- meir dagan, former chief of the mossad, israel's equivalent of the c.i.a. it's unheard of for someone who held such a high-classified position to speak out publicly, but he told us he felt compelled to talk because he is so opposed to a preemptive israeli strike against iran anytime soon. dagan headed the mossad for
nearly a decade, until last year. his primary, if not his only, mission was to prevent iran from developing a nuclear bomb, and he says there is time to wait, perhaps as long as three years. you have said publicly that bombing iran now is the stupidest idea you've ever heard. that's a direct quote. >> meir dagan: an attack on iran before you are exploring all other approaches is not the right way how to do it. >> stahl: the dispute seems to come down, though, to whether you are at the end of everything that you can try, or whether you have a lot of time left to try other things, which seems to be your position. >> dagan: i never said it's a lot of time, but i think that... >> stahl: well, more time. >> dagan: more time. >> stahl: for nearly a decade, buying more time was his job. the iranians say dagan dispatched assassins, faulty equipment, and computer viruses
to sabotage their nuclear program. all the while, he was poring over the most secret dossiers about the iranian regime, gaining insights and a surprising appreciation. >> dagan: the regime in iran is a very rational regime. >> stahl: do you think ahmadinejad is rational? >> dagan: the answer is yes. not exactly our rational, but i think that he is rational. >> stahl: do you think they're rational enough that they are capable of backing down from this? >> dagan: no doubt that the iranian regime is maybe not exactly rational, based on what i call "western thinking," but no doubt that they are considering all the implications of their actions. >> stahl: other people think they're not going to really stop till they have this capability. >> dagan: they will have to pay dearly and all the consequences for it. and i think the iranians, in this point in time, are going
very careful in the project. they are not running in it. >> stahl: if they're that rational, as you suggest, and that logical, then why can't you-- israel-- and the world live with a nuclear iran? >> dagan: in the israeli case, they have said that they want to destroy israel. >> stahl: he says one sign of iran's logical thinking is how they cunningly stall through diplomacy. >> dagan: i think that the iranians are masters at negotiation. they invented what i call "bazaar culture" of how we are negotiating. >> stahl: so if there are negotiations, how concerned would you be that the europeans, for example, would say, "ah, we're talking. let's weaken the sanctions." >> dagan: i have to admit that that's a concern, yes. >> stahl: people are going to want to lessen the tensions so that the oil prices will go back down. >> dagan: do you think that iran
armed with a nuclear capability is going to create stability in the region? they have an interest, a basic interest to raise the prices of oil, because this is the most important source of income for iran. if iran will be armed with a nuclear capability, their ability to create instability in the region, and by this indirectly to increase the price of oil, that'd be much worse than it is now. >> stahl: dagan says the best solution is to push the mullahs out by supporting iranian students and minorities. according to a leaked state department cable, he told his american counterparts, as early as 2007, more should be done to foment regime change. >> dagan: it's our duty to help anyone who likes to present an open opposition against their regime in iran. >> stahl: has israel done anything to encourage, help, support the youth opposition groups that have been marching against the regime?
>> dagan: let's ignore the question. >> stahl: ( laughs ) dagan argues that a pre-emptive israeli strike this year would be reckless and irresponsible. the obama administration agrees that there's time to wait. >> president barack obama: already, there's too much loose talk of war. >> dagan: i heard very carefully what president obama said. and he said openly that the military option is on the table, and he is not going to let iran become a nuclear state. >> stahl: so let me try to sum up what i think you're now saying-- you're saying, "why should we do it? if we wait and they get the bomb, the americans will do it." >> dagan: the issue of iran armed with a nuclear capability is not an israeli problem; it's an international problem. >> stahl: so wait and let us do it. >> dagan: if i prefer that somebody will do it, i always prefer that americans will do it. >> stahl: in his memoir, former
vice-president dick cheney says that, in 2007, dagan came to washington with intel to make the case for bombing the syrian nuclear reactor that israel later took out in a surprise attack. syria did not retaliate. this time, dagan thinks it'll be different. he worries about a rain of missiles, which some estimate could be as many as 50,000. >> dagan: we are going to ignite, at least from my point of view, a regional war. and wars-- you know how you start; you never know how you are ending it. >> stahl: we went outside and looked out from his balcony at the bright lights of the very prosperous modern city of tel aviv. if israel does strike iran, the retaliation would probably take place right here. hezbollah could come from the north, hamas could fire from the south. >> dagan: it will be a devastating impact on our ability to continue with our daily life.
i think that israel will be in a very serious situation for quite a time. >> stahl: dagan's other concern is that a bombing attack would not be effective. it's been widely reported that there are four main heavily fortified nuclear facilities dispersed across iran. he says it's more complicated than that. >> dagan: there are dozens of sites. >> stahl: dozens? >> dagan: dozens. >> stahl: not four? >> dagan: not four. >> stahl: so if israel were to go and have their strike, they'd have to have a dozen hits? >> dagan: you'll have to deal with a large number of targets. >> stahl: here's something that i saw that you said-- you said, "there's no military attack that can halt the iranian nuclear project. it could only delay it." >> dagan: yes, i agree. >> stahl: it's ironic that the man arguing that israel show restraint built his reputation on brute force. dagan is legendary in israel, with a 44-year resume as an
effective killing machine. before mossad, he ran undercover hit squads, executing p.l.o. operatives in gaza, then shiite militias in southern lebanon. former prime minister ariel sharon used to say dagan's expertise was "separating an arab from his head." >> dagan: i never, ever killed nobody or we were engaged in killing somebody who was unarmed. >> stahl: here are some of the things that have been said and written about you-- "hard- charging." "stop at nothing." somebody who "eats arabs for breakfast." >> dagan: i am not responsible for what you are describing. >> stahl: but have you killed a lot of people? >> dagan: unfortunately, i was involved in some engagements that people were killed. >> stahl: any with your bare hands? >> dagan: never. i know the stories. it's simply not true. look, there is no pleasure in killing.
there's no joy in killing people. >> stahl: sitting in his apartment, we were surprised that the walls were covered with pictures that he himself had painted. i see a lot of humanity in your paintings, and i see paintings of arabs. >> dagan: i know it would sound anti-semitic if i said that some of my best friends are arabs, but i truly, really admire some of the qualities of arabs. >> stahl: his portrait is complex-- he led a life of violence, but is a vegetarian. and in the background lies a haunting memory-- this is a photograph of his grandfather moments before he was executed by the nazis. dagan would show it to his mossad operatives before sending them off on missions. it's a very sad picture. and that's propelled you? >> dagan: i think that should propel everyone in this country. >> stahl: when the iranians, when ahmadinejad talks about
wiping israel away, this is what you're thinking? >> dagan: no doubt that i have to take into consideration a scenario that a majority of israelis are going to be killed if they're going to use a nuclear capability against israel. >> stahl: he came to mossad with the holocaust motto of "never again" on his mind. soon after, iranian cargo planes started falling from the sky, nuclear labs were catching fire, centrifuges were malfunctioning. and then, one by one, iranian nuclear scientists started disappearing and getting killed, blown up by shadowy men on motorcycles. but no matter how hard we tried, whenever we asked about any of this, he stonewalled. >> dagan: i'm not going to discuss anything about this issue. >> stahl: okay, but that's pretty well known. >> dagan: nice try. >> stahl: "nice try." that must kill you not to take credit for it.
i mean, even in the arab world, do you know what they call you? they call you "superman." >> dagan: i don't have my costume. >> stahl: in "superman's" time, mossad was credited with a string of daring, exquisitely executed covert missions and assassinations, from damascus to sudan. but glory turned to scorn at a dubai hotel in 2010 during an operation to kill a top arms courier for hamas. what the 27 mossad agents didn't know was that the hotel was full of security cameras, and while they succeeded in the assassination, the whole world got to watch their comings and goings, including the two agents who conspicuously hung around the elevator in their tennis shorts. pictures of the "secret agents" were on front pages around the world. this was considered kind of a disaster for the mossad. >> dagan: i never heard that any israeli was arrested.
>> stahl: no, but the chief of police in dubai called for your arrest. he challenged you to "be a man and take responsibility." >> dagan: what do they want, that i really would take seriously what the chief of police of dubai is saying? >> stahl: i wonder if it is the reason that you are no longer at the mossad; that it was seen as such a botched operation, that that basically ended your career. >> dagan: first of all, not true. i was requesting the prime minister to leave my office. after more then eight years, i believed it's enough. >> stahl: dagan says he retired, but it's widely believed in israel that netanyahu refused to renew his term, and that's one reason dagan has broken the mossad code of silence to criticize the prime minister's stand on iran. this is payback. >> dagan: payback? it's not even serious that i will reply.
i have really the great admiration for the prime minister benjamin netanyahu and defense minister barak. i'm not sharing their point of view, but it's not a payback. i don't see it as a personal issue. >> stahl: i've heard of talk that people want to put you on trial. they think what you're doing is treasonous. >> dagan: let them put me on trial. i'll be very happy to go on trial. it'll be fun. >> stahl: but we wondered if he had any regrets about not completing his mission at the mossad. so you were dealing with the possibility of iran getting a bomb for eight years. >> dagan: more than eight years. >> stahl: more than eight. did you fail? >> dagan: i could tell you one thing-- when i ended my role in mossad, they still didn't have a bomb. >> stahl: so now, the spymaster who spent his entire career in the shadows is out in the open as a public figure and a businessman. so, you travel? you travel all the time?
>> dagan: a lot, yes. >> stahl: do you travel freely? do you use your own passport with your name on it? >> dagan: yes. >> stahl: do you ever look over your shoulder? >> dagan: never. >> stahl: you don't think there's a target on you? do you think you're recognized? >> dagan: i'm assuming, theoretically, that there are a few groups of people around this world who will be happy to see me perish. but i'm not going to provide them the pleasure of doing so. >> cbs money watch update sponsored by: >> good evening. gas prices have surged to national average of $3.79 a gallon, up 51 cents since january 1st. the new ipad shows up in stores this week, and apple says preorders are sold out. and the swiss voted no to a plan increasing their paid vacation from four to six weeks a year. i'm jeff glor, cbs news. [ male announcer ] when these come together,
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>> stahl: now, cnn's sanjay gupta on assignment for "60 minutes." >> gupta: take a moment and remember your favorite teacher. now, imagine that teacher could reach, not 30 kids in a classroom, but millions of students all over the world. that's exactly what sal khan is doing on his web site khan academy. with digital lessons and simple exercises, he is determined to transform how we learn at every level. one of his most famous pupils, bill gates, says khan, this "teacher to the world," is giving us all a glimpse of the future of education. 35-year-old sal khan may look like a bicycle messenger, but with three degrees from m.i.t. and an m.b.a. from harvard, his errand is intensely intellectual. in his tiny office above a tea shop in silicon valley, he settles in to do what he's done thousands of times before. >> sal khan: we've talked a lot now about the demand curve and consumer surplus. now, let's think about the
supply curve. >> gupta: he's recording a ten- minute economics lesson. it's so simple- all you hear is his voice, and all you see is his colorful sketches on a digital blackboard. >> khan: in this video, we are going to talk about the "law of demand." >> gupta: when khan finishes the lecture, he uploads it to his web site, where it joins the more than 3,000 other lessons he's done. in just a couple of years, he's gone from having a few hundred pupils to more than four million every month. has it sunk in to you that you are probably the most watched teacher in the world now? >> khan: i... you know, i try not to say things like that to myself. you don't want to think about it too much because it can, i think, paralyze you a little bit. so, if we get rid of the percent sign, we move the decimal over... >> gupta: he's amassed a library of math lectures... >> khan: 12 + 4 is 16... >> gupta: ...starting with basic addition, and building all the way through advanced calculus. >> khan: we are taking limited delta x approach to zero. it's the exact same thing. >> gupta: but he's not just a math wiz-- he has this uncanny
ability to break down even the most complicated subjects, including physics, biology, astronomy, history, medicine. how much reading do you do ahead of time? >> khan: it depends what i'm doing. if i'm doing something that i haven't visited for a long time, you know, since high school, i'll go buy five textbooks in it, and i'll try to read every textbook. i'll read whatever i can find on the internet. let's talk about one of the most important biological processes... >> gupta: sal khan has tackled so many subjects that, if you watched just one of his lectures a day, it would take over eight years to cover it all. >> khan: these are huge time scales... magnetic north is kind of the geographical... and let's say this is point x is equal to... basic introduction... light... if this does not blow your mind, you have no emotion. >> gupta: did you ever think about putting yourself visually in the video? >> khan: look, if there's a human face there, especially a funny-looking human face, then it's actually hard to focus on the math. 4,000 is 2,000 x 3 is 6,000. i don't have to shave, i don't have to comb my hair.
i just press "record," make a video. there might be spinach in my teeth. who cares? >> gupta: the format is so simple. why does it appeal to so many people? >> khan: i've gotten a lot of feedback that it really does feel like i... i'm sitting next to the person and we're looking at the paper together. let me take out my trusty calculator out. i'm 95% of the time working through that problem real-time, or i'm thinking it through myself if i'm explaining something. and to see that it is actually sometimes a messy process-- that, you know, it isn't always this clean process where you just know the answer. i think that's what people like, the kind of humanity there. >> gupta: it all started in 2004 when sal khan was working as a hedge fund analyst in boston, and his cousin nadia, a seventh grader in new orleans, was struggling with algebra. he agreed to tutor her remotely, and wound up posting lessons on youtube. they helped nadia, but then an odd thing happened- total strangers started using them, too. >> khan: i started getting feedback like, you know, "my child has dyslexia, and this is the only thing that's getting into him." i got letters from people saying, you know, "we're... we're praying for you and your
family." that's pretty heady stuff. people don't say that type of stuff to a hedge fund analyst, normally. ( laughs ) >> gupta: so, in 2009, khan quit his job and, working from a desk set up in his closet, devoted himself full-time to khan academy. it's a non-profit with a simple but audacious mission-- "to provide a free world-class education for anyone anywhere." if that goal sounds far-fetched for a guy working in his closet, consider what happened next. >> bill gates: there's a web site that i've just been using with my kids recently called khan academy-- k-h-a-n. just one guy doing some unbelievable 15-minute tutorials. >> khan: i was like, "those are just for nadia, not bill gates. i have to... i have to look... i have to take a second look at some of this stuff." >> gupta: that's right-- bill gates, one of the smartest and richest men in the world, was using sal khan's free videos to teach his own kids. >> khan: two weeks later, i got a call from... from larry cohen, who is bill gates' chief of staff. and he says, you know, "you might have heard bill's a fan." and i'm, like, shaking.
i'm like, "yeah, i heard," you know. and he... and he was like, "if you have time, you know, love to fly you up to seattle." and then, i was looking at my calendar right then for the month-- completely blank. and i was like, "yeah, you know, i think i could, you know, fly in, you know, between, like, laundry and a bath." ( laughs ) "and meet with bill." >> gupta: that was just two years ago. today, with the help of more than $15 million in funding, much of it from the gates foundation and google, khan has been able to hire, with competitive salaries, some of the most talented engineers and designers in the country. the khan academy office has the intense vibe of a silicon valley start-up. the team is working to create software they hope will transform how math is taught in american classrooms. >> and once they've done all of these, they really understand proper fractions. >> khan: right, right. >> gupta: we visited a class in the los altos school district outside san francisco, where the new khan academy software is being piloted. >> courtney cadwell: grab your computer, log in, and then open
khan academy. >> gupta: right away, you notice something different. there are no textbooks and no teacher lecturing at the blackboard. instead, students watch khan videos at home the night before to learn a concept. then, they come to class the next day and do problem sets called modules to make sure they understand. if they get stuck, they can get one-on-one help from the teacher-- less lecturing, more interaction. what you think of as homework you do at school, and school work you do at home. it's called "flipping the classroom," and seventh grader laurine forget says using khan academy at home has given her math a big boost. >> laurine forget: i'm not a big fan of textbooks. i thought that khan academy was a lot easier, because it's on a screen, it's easy to find the concept you want to do. >> gupta: and now, with the videos, do you find yourself rewinding it, playing it again if you need to? >> forget: a lot, yeah. >> gupta: do that at home? >> forget: yeah. usually when i watch the videos, it's because i'm having trouble on the practices. so if i don't understand the video, i can always rewind it or
pause it so that i can go back to the module and do what i learned. >> gupta: but what's the hardest part about learning this way? >> forget: i don't really think there is a hard part. >> gupta: even kids who don't have a computer at home can "flip the classroom." eastside prep in east palo alto keeps its computer labs open until 10:00 p.m. so kids like sixth grader alex hernandez can take as much time as they need to learn a concept. >> alex hernandez: my mom, she went to school in mexico. some things she can explain to me, but some, like, she can't. so, like, i take long to, like, try to finish my homework. >> gupta: how did you used to do in math? >> hernandez: pretty bad. like, at a third-grade level math. so, you know, khan academy has helped me. it's like... it's, like, opened doors that i couldn't open. it's helped me a lot. >> gupta: a lot of people have talked about the idea that flipping the classroom is... is sort of what's happening here. you take a little bit of issue with that. >> khan: i kind of view that as... as a step in the direction. the ideal direction is using something like khan academy for every student to work at their
own pace, to master concepts before moving on. and then, the teacher, using khan academy as a tool, so that you can have a room of 20 or 30 kids all working on different things, but you can still kind of administrate that chaos. >> gupta: khan academy has created a dashboard so teachers like courtney cadwell can monitor each student's progress. so, right now, they're all working on things, and you can see that real-time? >> cadwell: yes. >> gupta: so, as you sit here and look at the dashboard, you see how the students are doing individually, you can see how they're doing as a whole class, and you can figure out who you need to help? >> cadwell: exactly. and here, i can track their progress over time. i can see who's rushing ahead, who's lagging behind. i can see if they begin to stagnate. >> gupta: a blue bar indicates a student knows a concept; orange, they're still working on it. but if a red bar pops up... >> cadwell: it's kind of the red flag to tell me, "hey, it's time to step in and intervene." and i can see... >> gupta: oh, so you can see not only it's red, but specifically what the problem is. >> cadwell: what they missed. and you can see the number of seconds they spent on each problem.
i feel like i'm using my time more effectively with my students because, instead of making the assumption that the entire class is weak in this area and i need to spend time reviewing this, i can really pull those three, four, five kids, do a mini-workshop, address those needs, and allow those other students to move on to problem-solving activities, or project-based learning with their peers. >> gupta: so far, the national education association has supported non-profit technology like khan academy in the classroom, as long as teachers are trained properly. but as with any new innovation, khan says there are always some skeptics. >> khan: i've seen some subset of teachers who say, "oh, what is this video thing?" you know, "live human interaction is important." and the reason why that... that bothers me a little bit is that i know that's exactly what we're saying. in fact, we exactly agree with you, that what we're trying to do is take the passivity out of the classroom so that you, as a teacher, will have more flexibility. >> gupta: does it minimize the role of the teacher? does it make it less impactful? >> khan: no, i think it's the exact opposite. we kind of view teachers playing the role of more like a coach or a mentor, which, once again, i
personally believe is a much higher valued thing than a lecturer. >> gupta: khan academy's math program is being piloted in 23 schools, mostly in california. preliminary test scores from a handful of classrooms have shown improvements, especially for students who were struggling. official state assessments will be available this summer. in the meantime, chief operating officer shantanu sinha says they're gathering massive amounts of data, not just from american classrooms, but from every khan academy user around the world. so, you can see how many problems were done over the last 24 hours? how many was it? >> shantanu sinha: right now, in the last 24 hours, we had close to 1.8 million. >> gupta: wow. not total, but just one day? >> sinha: yeah. yeah, just in... in a 24-hour period. >> gupta: and when you take a look at total users over the last 18 months... >> sinha: 41 million visits from the united states. we can look in from india at 1.7 million; australia, 1.4 million. >> gupta: right. it is pretty amazing to think that millions of people all over the world are using khan academy right now. >> sinha: yeah.
it's a gold mine on how to understand, you know, what... what paths through learning are most effective. >> gupta: khan says they look at all that data and constantly make changes to their software platform. >> khan: we can start fine- tuning things the way that amazon might fine-tune the button to help you buy that book or find the book that you want, or netflix says, "what's the right movie for you?" we now get to do with education. >> gupta: eric schmidt, the pioneering chairman of google, says he's seen a lot of failed attempts to integrate technology into education, but says what sal khan is doing is different. >> eric schmidt: many, many people think they're doing something new, but they're not really changing the approach, which, with sal, he said, "what we're going to do is not only we're going to make these interesting ten-minute videos, but we're going to measure whether it works or not." >> gupta: he was the guy to sort of make this happen? what... why do you think it was him and not some person who was an educator or who had a background in this area? >> schmidt: innovation never comes from the established institutions. it's always a graduate student or a crazy person or somebody with a great vision. sal is that person in education, in my view. he built a platform.
if that platform works, that platform could completely change education in america. >> khan: 17 over 9 is equal to 1.88. >> gupta: inside classrooms, it's just khan academy math for now, but sal khan believes his strategy can be used to teach subjects like history and science. and not just in elementary schools, but high schools and even colleges. but no matter how big or how successful khan academy gets, sal khan promises he'll never put a price tag on it. >> khan: the for-profits have to mold themselves much more to the education establishment than we do. as a not-for-profit, we're just like, "what's our mission?" to educate children as well as possible. i've said it enough times, and it's in our mission statement-- a free, world-class education for anyone anywhere. >> gupta: and that's what sixth grader alex hernandez says he needs. has anyone in your family ever gone to college? >> hernandez: no. >> gupta: so it's a pretty big deal for you? do you think you're going to be
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>> logan: after 40 tumultuous years together, aerosmith is one of the last great american rock bands standing. but by the standards of rock music, the band should be long gone, survivors of legendary drug problems and vicious arguments, the kind of which have taken down so many other groups of their generation. yet, with the help of singer steven tyler's over-the-top personality and his job as a judge on "american idol," they remain one the most popular concert draws in music. with us, they discuss all of it-- especially each other--
with brutal honesty, perhaps even hurtful candor, rarely heard on the record. ♪ ♪ they travel with their kids, wives, future wives, even ex- wives. at first glance, it looked like one big, happy 40-year-old family. $20 million for ten shows in south america brought them together, and they arrived in each country like conquering heroes. ♪ ♪ how good a band is aerosmith today in 2012 compared to the last 40 years? >> steven tyler: this band is better than it's ever been. it's not because i'm old now and the band's been around forever and it's our last tour. bull ( bleep ). it's because this band's that
good. ♪ love in an elevator living it up ♪ >> logan: their music is guitar driven and melodic, with lots of sexual innuendo. ♪ love in an elevator living it up ♪ when i'm going down >> tyler: we're going out and we're wowing 80,000 people. to do that and do it well is really an art form. ♪ ♪ >> logan: it's the clothes, the rock-star posing, the energy, all longtime aerosmith calling cards, four decades in motion. singer steven tyler is now 63; lead guitarist joe perry, 61. you've been described as the... the "greatest american rock band." is that how you feel? >> joe perry: we've been around long enough that we... we have seniority. ( laughs ) i don't know. there have been other bands that have... that have been great, you know, and come and gone. but we're still here.
>> logan: backstage, all five members make accommodations for their age before every show-- 61-year-old drummer joey kramer tapes his hands to prevent blisters. 60-year-old guitarist brad whitford gets help loosening up a tight shoulder, and 60-year- old bassist tom hamilton protects his precious hearing. without those, would you be deaf by now? >> hamilton: i went for a long time, you know, playing... you know, standing next to joey, our drummer. ( laughter ) >> logan: is he really loud? >> hamilton: oh, he is horrendous. >> logan: hamilton has survived throat cancer; kramer, a nervous breakdown; all five of them, severe drug and alcohol abuse. they told us they're all clean now... >> tyler: ( screams ) >> logan: but steven tyler's health remains an ongoing threat to the band's existence. he's battled hepatitis c, torn his a.c.l., and had surgery on his vocal cords and both his feet. >> tyler: my feet, from dancing around. >> logan: you're getting old.
>> tyler: yeah. ( laughs ) yes, i am. thanks for pointing that out. >> logan: at this concert in sturgis, south dakota, in 2009, tyler was once again addicted, this time to prescription painkillers his doctors gave him for his feet. he fell off the stage and nearly broke his neck. the tour was cancelled and triggered a series of events that caused the future of aerosmith to spiral out of control. were you angry with steven when he fell off the stage? >> perry: to be honest, i was expecting it. i mean, he wasn't in good shape. yeah, i was pretty pissed off at that point, you know, that... that it... he let himself get that far. >> logan: and that he was doing drugs again? >> perry: yeah. >> logan: steven tyler had a broken shoulder and 20 stitches in his head. brad whitford admits that he and his band mates purposely didn't check on him for weeks. >> brad whitford: everybody's life dramatically changed in an instant because he was, in my
mind, irresponsible. and... and i was very angry at him. >> logan: do you see why they were mad at you? >> tyler: oh, positively. not quite to the extent of not calling me for 27 weeks. >> logan: so, were you high? were you using again? >> tyler: oh, yeah. oh, i was. >> logan: and that's why you fell? >> tyler: i was... but wouldn't you think, after 40 years, the guys would come around, go, "look it, i'm pissed off at you but, did you break your neck? you all right?" i was hurt by that. and i went away to get well, and i came back a sober and better person, while two of them were still high. >> logan: while tyler was recovering, he found out the band was looking for a new lead singer. that was when "american idol" asked him to be a judge. why did you decide to do "american idol"? why did you want to do that? >> tyler: i was pissed off at the band for trying to find some other lead singer. i wasn't sure if i wanted to stay with the band because of their behaviors. just the right amount showing. that's nice.
>> logan: steven tyler's decision turned out to be yet another point of contention. the others were upset that he never consulted with them, but tyler was embraced by the "american idol" audience and aerosmith album sales soared. aerosmith doesn't just have its old fans; it has a whole generation of new fans today. is that, in part, because of steven's, you know, presence on "idol" and... and the prominence and celebrity that that's generated for not just him, but also for the band? >> perry: i mean, there's no denying "american idol's" a part of it, but he wouldn't be on that show if it wasn't for the band, you know, him being part of aerosmith. ♪ ♪ ♪ sing for the years sing for the laughter ♪ sing for the tiers >> logan: tension and drama have always been part of aerosmith. they formed in 1970, and cut their teeth playing clubs and high schools around boston. within five years, they were selling every ticket they could
print, peaking in 1978 when they headlined sold-out football stadiums across america. by that time, they were all drinking heavily and using hard drugs. tyler and perry were so hooked on heroin and cocaine, they were dubbed the "toxic twins." ♪ ♪ ♪ same old song and dance isn't it true that, night after night, you were just sometimes so high that you were terrible out there? >> tyler: oh, sure. >> logan: do you think you'd get away with that, in this day and age? >> tyler: it's what we did. it was accepted back then. that was the rock and roll. everybody was high. ♪ ♪ ♪ silver buttons up and down her back ♪ >> logan: so high, perry and tyler were often at each other's throats. ♪ walking the dog >> the guys talked about chairs flying, that kind of thing.
>> perry: well, they're... they're being pretty accurate, i think. there were dressing rooms that just got destroyed. it'd be like two silverback gorillas, and they... they, like, tear branches and rip up the ground and... and scream and yell. but they never actually get any closer than this, you know. >> logan: by 1980, the band's ongoing conflict tore them apart. four years later, millions they'd made were gone. so they reunited, got clean, and by the mid-1990s, they were as popular as they'd ever been. what makes aerosmith great? >> whitford: it... it takes somebody so over the top, and in our case, with our lead singer, steve... steven tyler, who's this amazingly gifted musician. he has perfect pitch. >> logan: i'm watching you two over here. you're exchanging looks. what does all that mean? >> joey kramer: well... >> logan: you were rolling your eyes. >> kramer: i'm not... >> logan: joey. ( laughter ) >> kramer: huh? >> logan: you're rolling your eyes inside at the mention of steven tyler's greatness. >> kramer: there's no doubt about steven's greatness. when you ask what makes the band
great, i think that it's a combination of all of us. what that was right now, i can't tell you. ( laughter ) >> hamilton: i think a lot of it is he's unbelievably competitive. you know, he's competitive with us, with each member of the band. >> tyler: how was it? was it as good for you as it was for me? >> logan: steven tyler does everything he can to control the band, and he tried to control our cameras, too. he's also quick to entertain, always unfiltered and spontaneous. >> tyler: ♪ love in an elevator >> logan: now living in los angles to work on "american idol," he is a workaholic, juggling television while writing new aerosmith music at the same time. so you will actually write lyrics while you're driving? >> tyler: oh, yeah. yeah, yeah. you know what? i'm a.d.d. personified. >> logan: and o.c.d.? >> tyler: i'm not sure about that, but i'm... i'm a.d.d.
now, i forgot what i was saying. >> logan: sorry. i interrupted you. ( horn honks ) ( laughs ) he is obsessive about the band and their music. he presses them hard for perfection-- sometimes too hard, they say, and diplomacy is not his forte. >> tyler: they ride my coattail, because they know i care. >> logan: and you're not supposed to say that they ride your coattail, because that'll drive them crazy. >> tyler: well, maybe. but i just tell the truth. that's why they don't like me. >> logan: all the guys said that they respect you incredibly, and it was clear. they also said they love you. but they also had some very harsh things to say. joey, for example, he said you tortured him. tom said you can be "unspeakably cruel," were his words. brad said that you can be extremely demanding and sometimes impossible to talk to.
>> tyler: they're 100% right. i've said many things to all those guys that i should never have said, that i didn't mean. >> logan: is there a fine line between being a perfectionist, and fixating over small things that don't matter? >> tyler: oh, sure. you have to know when to leave it. >> logan: do you know? >> tyler: it's okay. leave it. positively. >> logan: what would your band members say about that? >> tyler: you know what? i'm going to be big-headed right now, okay? i think my perfectionism and my busting everyone's chops is what got this band to where it is, today. in the end, i get a real good song. and in the end, i get the hits. yeah, i'm that good. i was doing this, you know... ♪ ♪ >> logan: yet, as we discovered, steven looks to joe perry for approval. >> tyler: ♪ cruising for the ladies ♪ cruising for the ladies... and i went, "cruising for the ladies," to joe. and i went, "no, i can't do that, no." and i thought, "dude... dude looks like a lady." and i said, "joe, i... what do you think about 'dude looks like
a lady'? should i do that?" and he goes, "why not? you sung everything else." and i needed that. that was great approval. >> logan: do you like steven? >> perry: yeah. well, there's sides of him i like and there's sides i don't, but i'll put up with whatever i have to to have... have this guy in my band because he's got it. he's a world-class voice. >> logan: has it ever come to s it ever come damage the relationship too much. besides, he needs his jaw to sing, so it's never come to that. >> logan: he needs his jaw to sing. ( laughs ) >> tyler: oh. "i need my jaw to sing." that's a terrible... terrible message that sends. i always sleep with one eye open with him, you know. >> logan: so it bothers you that he said that? >> tyler: oh, sure, it does. "he needs his jaw to sing." does that mean that maybe there's a fight in the near future? i think he's still got a good, strong ego.
>> logan: they're about to go on tour across america, and they're working on a new album. but they're still playing their old classics, like this 1977 hit, "draw the line," something these five guys from boston are still trying to figure out how to do. ♪ ♪ ♪ nowhere to go >> go to 60minutesovertime.com to hear lara logan's backstage stories about aerosmith. sponsored by pfizer. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. if you have painful, swollen joints, i've been in your shoes. one day i'm on top of the world... the next i'm saying... i have this thing called psoriatic arthritis. i had some intense pain. it progressively got worse.
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